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>> what have we learned today? >> let's see if we can't get it straight. this is the 15th time we have done this run-through. what have you learned today, brian? >> i learned some people judge where they're going based on mcdonald's or dunkin' donuts. barnicle does it based on outlet malls. >> that's good. >> you're not very judgmental, except about my tweets. which you monitor. >> i've been hammering you today in your tweets. >> yes, you have. >> i learned a new technology discussion that i think will enter the debate around gun control and i learned to expect mike wearing maybe peonies this sunday for easter. >> this is all hurtful. >> peonies -- name your flower. >> be with me here. >> what i learned is that mike is the subject of a lot of abuse in this show, much of it deserved. but today he looks like a harvard professor. khaki pants -- >> thank you. >> stylish blue blazer, muted shirt. >> harvard professors don't wear sweat socks. >> most of it is free, too.

>> i learned that off what you just pointed out, lee, common sense and courage is rapidly, every day, becoming a casualty in the united states senate and house of representatives. when we can't get going on how to protect kids from shooting guns in their house, there is something wrong. but brian -- >> yes. >> if it's way too early here, what time is it? >> time for "morning joe." but now time for "the daily rundown." >> he did it! >> i did it on one take! as the number of americans approving same-sex marriage keeps growing, this week, two major legal fights make their way to the supreme court. and the outcome could impact marriage rights across the country. meanwhile, overseas, on the heels of tough talk in iraq, secretary of state john kerry gets ready for a face-to-face meeting with president karzai in afghanistan. we'll go live to kabul in just a minute. and back at home, the biggest voices in the gun debate

square off as congress gets ready to consider changes that have both sides up in arms. >> good morning from mason middle school in mason, ohio. today is monday, march 25th, 2013. and this is "the daily rundown." >> our thanks to the eighth graders at mason middle school in ohio. even that kid lying down. that would have been me in eighth grade. good morning to all of you. i'm chris alizza in for chuck todd this morning. secretary of state john kerry is in afghanistan on a previously unannounced appearance in the war zone. the second stop on a solo trip that took him to iraq over the weekend. but this was no photo op. kerry took the opportunity to have what he called a spirited discussion with iraqi leaders about their failure to stop or even inspect daily flights from iran, carrying weapons to the syrian army through iraqi air space. >> anything that supports

president assad is problematic. and i made it very clear to the prime minister that the overflights from iran are, in fact, helping to sustain president assad. there are members of congress and people in america who increasingly are watching what iraq is doing, and wondering how it is that a partner in the efforts for democracy and a partner for whom americans feel they have tried so hard to be helpful, how that country can be, in fact, doing something that makes it more difficult to achieve our common goals. >> nbc's mike taibbi is live for us in akabul, afghanistan. mike, let's talk. this is not a photo op. this is some tough talk from john kerry. how is it being received? >> well, it has been tough talk from secretary of state john kerry, and you wonder how spirited the discussions are

going to be with afghan president hamid karzai. they're meeting and now there will be a joint press conference later. the two men know each other. kerry has made five previous trips here when he was a senator. but there have been strained relations between the u.s. and congress. everybody has been reporting. particularly in recent weeks following criticism and charges by karzai the u.s. is working in concert with the taliban against afghan interests. however, it could work out a little bit better here, because karzai has had a pretty good week, a pretty good day today. earlier today, got something he has been demanding for months, the formal handover of the u.s.-run prison room at the air base, ab emblem of afghan sovereignty. insist they have a key say in whether detainees they consider high risk not be released in prison exchanges. that seems to have been worked out. one of the good news things for karzai. another, he has worked out the details of another thing he has been demanding, the withdrawal of u.s. and coalition special

forces west of kabul, a violent and dangerous place. karzai has charged there have been allegations that u.s. and coalition special forces have mistreated civilians in that province. sometimes in a lethal way. those charges have been denied. but he has demanded they withdraw and has now worked that out. not all good news for karzai recently. yesterday he announced that he was going to go to doha at the invitation of the qatari to begin discussions how to begin discussions, finally, formally and directly with the taliban. he made that announce wanted to. a taliban spokesman told nbc news we haven't talked to karzai before, we're not going to. but that aside, will meet with secretary kerry. the two men know each other, and this looks like a likelihood they will have that joint press conference, and some positive news as well. chris? >> mike, thanks. we'll be looking out for it. fighting has escalated inside the capital of syria, where rebels have fired multiple rockets into downtown damascus.

some of them exploding less than a mile from president assad's home. meanwhile, more calls from congress about america stepping up to the opposition. here's intelligence committee chairman mike rogers of michigan. >> we create a safe zone in the north, meaning -- think of this. the assad regime has used approximately 100 scud missiles so far on civilians. that in and of itself should prompt action. so we can do this in a way that doesn't lure the united states into a big boots on the ground conflict but use our small group special capabilities to make sure that scud missiles don't reach their target. >> nbc's ayman mohyeldin is live for us from cairo. aman, a lot going on, the bombings, the questions about were chemical weapons used last week and our ability to find out. give us the latest from the ground. >> reporter: well, as you mentioned, a lot of developments. if you start with some of the military ones, or at least in terms of the fighting intensifying in the capital of damascus now hitting strategic

targets belonging to the regime, but the regime still able to fire back, including what some accounts have reported chemical weapons or at least lethal weapons of a chemical nature. more importantly today, the founder or one of the major offices of the free syrian army, the rebel movement, the opposition rebel movement, was attacked today by fighters loyal to the regime. he apparently lost his leg and is now being treated in at your co. that is a decisive blow against the operational structure of the free syrian army. but more importantly, the political nature of the free syrian army and the opposition continues to be in shambles. yesterday, the leader of that movement, a man who was with john kerry in rome when the u.s. announced more aid to the opposition, he announced his resignation, and so it's just a highlight, really, of the kind of in-fighting and divisions that exist among the syrian opposition and against that backdrop, the death toll continues to rise. we also heard growing concerns iran is still sending weapons to

syria, as well as money. and now more pressure being exerted by the u.s. on the iraqi government to halt that type of aid, just as the supporters of the opposition, including saudi arabia, turkey and qatar are reportedly sending more weapons and money to the rebels. chris? >> ayman, thank you. more than 70,000 dead since the start of the conflict. remarkable. thanks for your reporting. and for more on the secretary's middle east trip, i'm joined by nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent, andrea mitchell, traveling with secretary kerry and was able to give us this report by phone from afghanistan. >> reporter: chris, this is secretary kerry's sixth trip to afghanistan in the last couple years. but his first as secretary. and he's got a good relationship with hamid karzai, the very eccentric president of afghanistan. and this is a mission here. the question is, is he going to play good cop or bad cop today. given the fact that karzai was so difficult the last time he visited with a top american, which was chuck hagel, of

course, defense secretary. kerry has such a good relationship, he's going to try to smooth things over. they think they can get past all of the difficulties with karzai. and they've got a lot of big issues. they've got the transition, political transition to talk about. they've got the obvious transition of a downsizing of the forces and eventually after 2014, figuring out what kind of security agreement there will be with afghanistan. as you've heard, the turnover of the prison today is a big deal, and the americans have been guaranteed that the most dangerous prisoners will not be released. that remains to be seen. but there are a lot of issues. this is, of course, a trip which has already taken kerry to the middle east, working on the israeli palestinian issue in support of president obama. and then trying to help broker that turkish/israeli agreement to restart their relations. and then, of course, his trip to jordan and then the unannounced

secret trip to baghdad only yesterday, where he was really chiding and warning prime minister maliki that he has to do something to stop those iranian overflights, rearming syria. so this has been a pretty busy trip, a late-night dinner they have not announced last night with the very powerful head of the army, the army chief of staff, cayenny from pakistan in eamon of all things. he's not going to pakistan on this trip and usually secretaries of state go to both pakistan and afghanistan. but he's not going to pakistan, because they are in a political transition, and it just could not be worked out. so there has been a lot on his plate. but right now, front and center is president karzai. chris? >> thanks, andrea. next, a big week ahead for same-sex marriage. as the supreme court takes up two cases that could be a game-changer for millions of gay and lesbian couples nationwide. we'll break down what's at

stake. and in our first read this morning, michael bloomberg's gun fight. why the mayor is targeting swing state senators in their own backyards. but first, a look ahead at today's politics planner as mike taibbi was mentioning, secretary kerry and president karzai talking to the press at 10:45 a.m. eastern. you're watching "the daily rundown." it's only on msnbc. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios has oats that can help lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! ♪ wow. [ buzz ] delicious, right? yeah. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... ♪ well, would you look at the time... what's the rush? bee happy. bee healthy. with clusters of flakes and o's. oh, ho ho... it's the honey sweetness. i...i mean, you...love.

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the supreme court will take up the legal battle over same-sex marriage for the first time this week. the court will consider challenges to two laws, california's proposition 8, a 2008 ballot measure, that added a marriage ban to that state's constitution, and the defense of

marriage act, a '96 law, which bars the federal government from recognizing same-sex marriage, depriving gay couples of federal benefits. the nine justices will weigh in on the constitutionality of marriage laws at a time when public opinion has dramatically shifted on the issue. 38 states, though, still ban it, either by law or constitutional amendment. here for a impressive view, nbc news justice correspondent, pete williams. pete, good morning. big week. set the stage for us. >> reporter: right. well, both cases basically raise the same constitutional question. can the states or the federal government, under the constitution, discriminate against gays and lesbians but not either recognizing their marriages or permitting them to marry. the advocates of proposition 8 say yes. marriage should be the tradition should be observed, we shouldn't rush into this. and marriage should be limited simply to men and women, because of the fact that they can produce children. now the opponents of that say no, there's no good reason to limit it. if you allow gays and lesbians

to get married, it doesn't hurt the marriages of straight couples. it has no effect on it at all. and had, in fact, enhances marriage. slightly different issue in prop -- in the doma case, chris, because there the question is, if a state does decide to grant same-sex marriage, can the federal government refuse to recognize it, and there's a question here about whether the government has always or usually or normally deferred to the states to let them decide what marriage is. and lurking in both of them, it should be warned, is this question about whether the parties have legal standing to bring the cases. that's a much bigger issue in the doma case than it is in prop 8. >> i was going to say, pete, one of the most fascinating things i found in reading up about this is the standing question, do the people have the right to -- it's possible worry looking at this week as a massive moment and it's possible that the justices could rule no standing and maybe not. but let me play david boyce, the -- one of the lawyers in proposition 8 and arguing for

and against repeal. let's play what they had to say over the weekend and come back and talk about it. >> every time the supreme court makes a constitutional decision, it's making a decision that certain fundamental rights are too important to be left to the ballot box. we've done that with race, we've done that with women, we've done that with every discriminateded class. >> it's really difficult for americans in our public policy and culture to emphasize the fact that mothers and fathers are necessary when the law says they're optional. >> so pete, it feels like the argument here is, you know, is this -- in all cases here, is this the federal government, do we need to step in, does the federal government need to step in here, or the courts need to step in here or not. possible we get a mixed verdict, one way on prop 8, one way on doma, or is the sentiment that we're likely to get sort of two of one or two of the other? >> i think on doma, there is a very strong possibility the court will strike that down. we'll say the federal government can't make a distinction

between -- can't decide what marriage is, it has to defer to the states. on patrol 8, it could uphold prop 8, strike it down only in california, a decision that would apply only in california. it could say that california and any other state that recognizes civil unions can't then refuse to allow same-sex marriage that would apply to eight states or could do what david boyce and ted olson and two gay couples challenging prop 8 want the supreme court today and say no state can refuse to recognize same-sex marriage. so a range of possible outcomes. >> a wide range. and that's what bhax maix it so fascinating. pete williams, thank you. >> you bet. and now that congress has finally funded the government through the end of the year, hooray, washington is pivoting to the next set of big issues on the agenda. guns and immigration. today, president obama will advocate for a comprehensive immigration reform plan at a naturalization ceremony for active duty service members and civilians at the white house. and this week, organizing for action will begin an aggressive

online campaign, highlighting the personal stories of immigrants. meanwhile, with the senate set to consider gunlation after its spring recess, michael bloomberg and wayne lapierre are both promising to invest millions in that coming legislative fight. bloomberg's group, mayors against illegal guns, announced it will spend $12 million, all of the mayor's money -- not all of it, has plenty more, on ads like this one to push democratic and republican senators to back gun control efforts. >> for me, guns are for hunting and protecting my family. i believe in the second amendment. and i'll fight to protect it. but with rights come responsibilities. that's why i support comprehensive background checks. >> 90% of the public wants something, and their representatives vote against that. common sense says they are going to have a price to pay for that.

>> he can't spend enough of his $27 billion to try to impose his will on the american public. they don't want him in their restaurants. they don't want him in their homes, they don't want him telling them what food to eat. they sure don't want him telling them what self defense firearms to own, and he can't buy america. >> nbc's deputy political editor, domenico montanaro is here with today's first read. it strikes me in watching that, you would think that two sides would find people who were sort of more appealing -- bloomberg is easily characterized big city mayor, wants to ban sugary drinks and now -- waip lapierre, trying to come in your house. wayne lapierre seems the angry side of gun rights and threatening. it's amazing to me these are the two figures that have emerged in this back and forth. but -- >> what do you have, deep pockets on both sides. you have mayor bloomberg -- >> he who has the money. >> of course. mayor bloomberg, a billionaire and can spend this money. takes a $1 salary from new york,

not why he is mayor of new york, for the money. >> right. >> and wayne lapierre has been involved in this fight for a while. and now he has an adversary with deep pockets and needs to push back. >> right. in a way, it's kind of raising wayne lapierre's profile, if anything. and the nra's profile. so we know from the senate bill last week they have jettisoned the assault weapons ban and bans on high-capacity magazines, which really puts all the eggs -- making my easter reference, all the eggs in the background checks basket. let me play something that tom coburn, republican senator from oklahoma, said over oh the weekend on c-span, talking about where they are in background checks. >> they're going to require any gun that is sold in a gun show to go through a federally firearmed licensed background check. what we're going to do is put at risk gun owners who actually followed the law and 11 years later can't find a piece of paper that said they did it right and the presumption is

you're guilty. will their bill pass the senate? >> yeah. >> i don't think so. and not at 60 votes. and if it does pass the senate, it certainly won't pass the house. >> look, things change in politics. we had a two-week recess. we'll see what happens. bloomberg's ads are running. if the white house can't get a bill with background checks through, this would be a failure. is that correct? >> yeah. i mean, that's what the whole thing is about. you talk about your easter egg basket, this is what it's about, background checks and that's why you have the fight and the deep pockets for mayor bloomberg and vice president biden out there making this push. >> absolutely. >> hoping to appeal across party lines. >> all right. let's talk about another issue where the court is going to weigh in. i tend to think the political battle -- i've written, the political battle on same-sex marriage is over with. >> because of the polling issue -- >> the polling. we'll talk about this later. we're going to do a deep dive about how the polling has shifted. let's talk about the republican party in particular. you have john boehner saying last week, look, i'm not going to change my position.

you have ralph reed on "meet the press" saying he doesn't think it's going to change. and yet washington post polling, republicans 18 to 49, a majority-supporting same sex marriage. what does the party do? because the politics and the principle seem to be running in opposite directions. >> well, look, i think that generational change happens. and you see these things -- you know, wind up happening over a generation, over a couple decades. the politics and the polling, like you mentioned, we'll talk about more, has changed rapidly. even just the past five years, president obama's position on civil unions versus now he's fully in favor of same-sex marriage. hillary clinton, who if she wants to run in 2016, she's going to -- she's in favor of same-sex marriage. any democrat who runs has to be in favor of it. republicans at this point still undecided. >> it's a more dicey territory. quickly, it's amazing to me that people forget, president obama, then senator obama, and then senator clinton, both oppose gay

marriage and supported civil unions in the '08 presidential campaign five years ago. now, it's march madness so the tournament is over for me after georgetown. but the good thing is, i still have senate madness. i have the nbc political unit, i can still focus on a bracket and not shed tears. tell me where we stand. >> four match-ups we want to point to today. the 1-16s versus the 8-9s. and ted kennedy, our overall number one, the legislator versus lloyd benson who won our play-in match-up. >> benson beats graham. >> benson beats graham. and lots of votes online, almost 1,000 votes, maybe more. so everyone get out and vote today. and robert byrd versus tom daschle on the other side. so robert bird who did so much for west virginia. tom daschle, mr. leader. a good 8-9 battle and they will face off against each other so potentially a kennedy-byrd match-up or kennedy-daschle.

and hugo black versus robert wagner for people who don't know who they are -- >> not the actor. >> right. it's not the actor, robert wagner. this is robert wagner, who is responsible for social security. for a lot of the new deal initiatives. for collective bargaining and labor agreements. this is the guy who was really fdr's ally on the hill to get most of the stuff done. hugo black is the last senator to serve on the supreme court. >> right. >> you know -- >> only an eighth seed. >> and he's responsible for lobbying disclosure. we wouldn't have lobbying disclosure if it wasn't for him. >> folks, go and check out the write-ups at doumenico and mark murray have done on the website. it's great. you will learn more. i am learning in conversation about these folks. i vote for daschle, just because of the red glasses. >> well, and henry clay versus claiborne pell. >> based-named ever. thank you. go to

firstreadnbcpolitics.com. to get your senate madness on. yes. up next, more bracket-busting. this hurts me to read. what could be the greatest cinderella story in ncaa history? you know we're talking about florida gulf coast. and why is jennifer granholm saying no to a senate run? but first, today's trivia question has a march madness theme. who oh represents the district of last year's ncaa winner? the first person to tweet the correct answer to @dailyrundown will get a shoutout later in the show. that answer and more coming up on "the daily rundown." do we have a mower? no. a trimmer? no. we got nothing. we just bought our first house, we're on a budget

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official on friday with a facebook post, of course, saying the decision was a family one. the two top democratic contenders for the seat are now congressman garry peters and debby dingle. if that name sounds familiar, it should. she is a strategist and also the wife of long-time michigan congressman, john dingle. and cyprus made a deal with enter international lenders for a $13 billion with a b bailout. it will inflict heavy losses on uninsured depositors. without the deal, the european central bank said it would have cut off emergency funds to the banks, which would have triggered a meltdown of cyprus' banking system and forced the country to abandon the euro. and finally, if your bracket wasn't a mess like mine after georgetown's loss to the florida gulf coast eagles friday night, it probably is now after the 15th seed won again. the little-known eagles made history yesterday when they became the first 15th seed to reach the sweet 16, thanks to

their strong second half surge against san diego state. they won that game by ten, just like they beat georgetown, 81-71. the team, which earned the name dunk city after tess trying my team friday night plays next friday against one of the most high-profile teams in the nation, the billy dunnovan coached florida gators. up next, the opinion in same-sex marriage. how hard is it for lawmakers to balance politics with their personal principles? you're watching "the daily rundown." it's only on msnbc. ♪ you know my heart burns for you... ♪ i'm up next, but now i'm singing the heartburn blues. hold on, prilosec isn't for fast relief. cue up alka-seltzer. it stops heartburn fast. ♪ oh what a relief it is! something this delicious could only come from nature. discover nectresse™. the 100%-natural no-calorie sweetener made from the goodness of fruit.

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[ ship horn blows ] no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... not so much. but that's okay -- you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? a last-minute deal to avert a financial meltdown in cyprus is fueling market in europe and here at home, as well. it could help the s&p break its all-time closing record. it's just nine points away. one note of caution out there. on sunday, reuters reported the imf is going to slash its expectations for the u.s. growth rate in 2013 from 2% to just

1.7%. now, starting tomorrow, as you've heard, the supreme court hears arguments in a pair of cases that could define the issue of same-sex marriage in america. reshaping the political landscape in the process. it's the subject of today's deep dive and shows how difficult it can be for lawmakers trying to square their principles with their politics. more and more democrats are coming out publicly in favor of same-sex marriage. missouri senator claire mccaskill was the latest, a democrat from missouri, tweeting her support on sunday. hillary clinton fueled speculation about a 2016 bid when she made this announcement a week ago. >> lgbt americans are our colleagues, our teachers, our soldiers, our friends, our loved ones. i support marriage for lesbian and gay couples. i support it personally and as a matter of policy and law. >> it's trickier for republicans. they're caught between the desire to broaden their party's tent and not upsetting the

conservative base. some are still refusing to budge. >> just because i believe that states should have the right to define marriage in a traditional way does not make me a bigot. >> i believe that marriage is the union of one man and one woman. and i can't imagine that position would ever change. >> ohio republican senator rob portman changed his position completely after his son came out. but other republicans are refusing to say yes or no on gay marriage. they're caught somewhere in between. >> i know what our principles are, and i know our party believes that marriage is between one man and one woman, but i also know that we have a party that's going to be inclusive. >> way too many people believe republicans are anti immigrant, anti woman, anti science, anti gay, anti worker and the list goes on and on and on. >> joe benenson was a poster for the obama campaign, president and founding partner of the benenson strategy group.

and alex lund re is a republican polster who worked with mitt romney's campaign, vice president of target point consulting. let me first say it is a treat to have you both here for me. i'm thrilled. >> great to be here. >> it's a fascinating topic. let me start by showing some nbc wall street journal numbers to talk about the trend. so in 2004, the question was asked, do you favor or oppose same-sex marriage. 30% favor, 62% oppose. today, eight and a half years later, 51% favor, 40% oppose. let me start with you. the trend seems quite clear. am i missing something? i want to make sure we're painting the whole picture. >> no, you're not missing anything. it's a pretty spectacular time to be a student of public opinion. because we're in the midst of one of the most profound public opinion shifts in history right now. everything is moving up. >> and what do you do, joel? you've -- i mean, look, you and i have had many conversations about the data and what's good and bad. but i would say that broadly what it looks like here is all the polling suggests things moving in a certain direction.

what explains when something moves like this? i feel like some of these -- we've had abortion. it's kind of like there's this many people who say they're for it, and never, ever changes. this, to alex's point, we're talking about monumental shift in eight years. >> well, there is a lot going on. first of all, we did an extensive analysis of the exit polls. we had a sample of 5,000 interviews. and what we really found is opposition to gay marriage, and sa same-sex marriage is becoming increasingly isolated in pockets of the electorate. so for example, people over the age of 65 remain opposed to same-sex marriage by very large numbers but everybody else under 65 supports it by 52. >> generational. >> 52-44. there is a generational shift and that gets more dramatic when you look at younger voters or break the electorate down by religion. for example, white evangelicals form a strong part of the republican party base. they are overwhelmingly opposed. but everybody else who is not a white evangelical christian by

20-plus points support freedom to marry. >> i want to go through some of these numbers that show the shift. some of them are in places we might think independents. but a lot of them are not. so, look, this is abc "washington post" polling. '04, 15% of republicans support gay marriage. now 33%, more than double, i'm not a math major but i think that's right. conservatives, 10% in '04 -- three times as much. and minorities, 28 -- this is remarkable and i think honestly, barack obama deserves a significant amount of credit for being an african-american president of the united states, supporting same-sex marriage. 28% in 2004. 61% now. alex, these changes, they're not just -- it's not democrats getting more in favor of it. here's the fundamental question. what does your party do? this is what we have been talking about. you have some people saying -- john huntsman, rob portman saying, look, let's get this --

we support gay marriage but ralph reed this is a fundamental principle for our party. what do you do? >> soul-searching in the party right now. but to joel's point earlier, this is very much a generational divide. if you look at evangelical millennials, 64% of evangelical million ennials. if you look at republican million ennials, at 58% support for same-sex marriage. america is changing. >> the number i'm always struck by, "washington post" poll, 1849 self-identified republicans. 53%. >> remarkable, generational shift. >> going forward, hillary clinton last week, she had been one of the last -- i don't want to say hold-outs but high-profile people to switch. is this a position you must have to be a serious contender going forward in democratic party politics? you must support gay marriage? >> i think this is a position that anybody running for public office is going to have to have. >> republicans included.

>> absolutely. look, the country has changed. this is a position in every demographic group. the numbers you just cited, their views have changed on this over the last ten years. they have changed dramatically over the last two years. this is where america is. i think what jeb bush, the clip you showed of jeb bush, shows what the dramatic problem is for the republican party. they can't be a party of intolerance when it comes to gay marriage, when it comes to immigration, when it comes to whether you believe in climate change or not. >> well, let me ask you both this quickly. my theory in some ways, it's sort of like gun control was in the '90s for democrats, which is there is -- there are plenty of people in the base of the democratic party who still believe gun control, but the leaders of the party did not talk aggressively about it. so there's going to be a part of the republican base in this december nbc "wall street journal" poll. 27% of republicans broadly favor it. so i don't want to oversell it. 27% favor same-sex marriage. there is going to be a part of your party, alex, that doesn't -- does not want to change principles. should your leadership, people running for president, should

they, a., say, look, i support same-sex marriage. fact you can disagree. or should they not talk as much about it? >> i think i personal low would love to see them embrace same-sex marriage. i think they should. but, look, this is ultimately, you know, a big debate in the party that we're having right now. and i don't think it's a matter of changing principles. i think it's a matter of re evaluating how support for same-sex marriage fits into conservative principles. i think if you believe in freedom, the government should be involved in personal lives which most conservatives and republicans do, i don't think it's a victory to be a conservative and believe in same-sex marriage. >> democrats let a presidential nominee in 2016 fudge this issue, should they? >> i don't think democrats will let them fudge it and the voters won't. >> a pleasure. great to see both of you guys in person. >> thanks for having me. >> next, will gaggel on this big's big cases could have nationwide. but first, white house soup of the day.

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the big question this week is whether the supreme court will complete the recent evolution on same-sex marriage that so many people in washington seem to already have made. and if there is any doubt about the historic nature of these hearings, look at these pictures. people are weathering the cold temperatures. it is snowing out, folks, and camping out to be inside the courtroom during the hearings, which start tomorrow. let's bring in our monday gaggle from the center for american progress.

thank you all for being here. weathering the weather. could be a nightmare. so kristin, i want to talk to you about this. we had alex on, and he said, look, i think the party should change our position on gay marriage. it's not about talking about it or not talking about it. we need to change our position and get closer to where the american public is. do you agree? >> i think that the party needs to showcase the diversity of opinion that is within its ranks currently. so think about it. young voters broke heavily for president obama back in 2008 when he did not favor same-sex marriage. it was only about a year ago that he evolved on his position. i don't think it's as cut and dry as one party is all in favor and one party is all opposed. i think republicans need to sort of highlight the diversity of opinion. >> how do you do that, quickly? >> i think you can have folks, pick someone like marco rubio, you showed a clip earlier. he believes marriage is between a man and woman but he thinks states should be able to decide what they want to decide. so he has taken this middle position. i think that's an interesting

sort of -- it's neither black nor white on the issue that we can begin highlighting. >> let me -- we have -- rob portman, very publicly, i believe it was last week -- time flies in this day and age. very publicly came out and said, look, i oppose same-sex marriage, now supportive of it and mentioned his son, wil. middle son who two years ago told him he is gay. will portman wrote a piece in the "yale daily news." we decided my dad would talk about having a gay son if he were to change his position on marriage equality, the only honest way to change his explain his change of heart. if a gay son is the way it takes for things to change in the party, that's not going to be something every person in every family is going to have. how does the party, if they do, move from their long-held principle, which is , look, a marriage is between a man and woman, how do they move without it feeling insincere to the base

or false? >> it will just happen over time. it's just happening a little bit slower for republicans. even for democrats. you saw today, last night, senator claire mccaskill, a red state democrat. >> and quickly about claire mccaskill, a red state democrat who just got re-elected, now six years away from being re-elected. you know, she could have done it six months ago and didn't. >> it's true. but even president obama just came to this. >> true. >> may of last year. and let's look back to may of last year when he did this. there was a lot of commentary about whether this would hurt him in the election. we now have gotten past one presidential election. it didn't hurt him. people thought it helped him. so i think that's really taken some of the sting out of democrats, certainly, coming out. and even republicans. >> and danielle, for your party, for democrats, hillary clinton last -- a week ago monday, a week ago today, came out and said i support gay marriage. is there a penalty in the party for being more of a late arriver on this issue?

>> i don't think there will be. i think what matters at the end of the day, you arrive at the right position. so even if you were the first or last, i don't think it necessarily matters. but i do think that, you know, there is a difference between parties. and i think that democrats -- issues concerned, come at it more of a position of empathy. it shouldn't have to take having a gay child or gay relative for you to change your mind on this issue. and i think that's a big problem that republicans, you know, have to deal with. they really need to listen to what alex was saying earlier. you can be a conservative and still support same-sex marriage. >> is that a viable argument to the base of the party? that's -- we talk around this issue, jon huntsman, sure, supports gay marriage but jon huntsman can't go to the base and say this is important. do you need someone really high-profile? jeb bush, marco rubio, someone of that level, your presidential nominee? >> i think that leadership matters. and i think that somebody very, very high-profile taking a position can send a signal to the base.

but, you know, i would -- i don't necessarily think that just because the base of the republican party is opposed to this it means that republican leaders aren't going to begin moving that way. >> carey, let's say a republican, big republican comes out and says i have to change my mind. does that switch the issue? and i'm not discounting rob portman but talking about a jeb bush or rubio, someone we expect to run for president. >> i think this is the direction the country is going by virtue of the polls. how direction the country is going by virtue of the polls how quickly it has changed. it is hard to see how you're not going to see more republicans and certainly more democrats of a higher profile, often come late to the game after the public on many issues. >> come late to games. >> danielle, yes or no answer, then we will come back. can a democratic presidential nominee win in 2016 without being on the record in support of same sex marriage? >> i don't think so. >> thank you for respecting the rule, odd thing in a television

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some developing news. the supreme court agreed to take on a case involving affirmative action. it involves a 2006 michigan initiative that amended the constitution to prohibit

discrimination or preferential treatment in education, government contracting and unemployment based on race, sex, ethnicity or national origin. the case will be heard in the fall. let's bring back the gaggle. i want to talk about the other big issue in the news which is guns. kristin, your party, this doesn't seem like we have no assault weapons ban, certainly there's going to be a vote, unlikely to pass. we have nothing on high capacity magazines. where does it go from here? >> trying to find the small victories that can be scored. a lot of republicans are in favor of things that try to keep guns out of the hands of folks with serious mental health problems. those are the steps i think we will be taking. >> background checks passed? >> you have 85% of gun owners. >> 85% in quinnipiac poll. >> it depends on whether joe man

chen, senator from west virginia can get a deal that brings some republicans. >> plug? >> all about me, gibbs birthday week. wednesday was my brother, friday my dad, today is mine. happy birthday to my brother. >> shoutout to my six-year-old niece, her birthday, big deal, olivia. >> kristin. >> friday shoutout to my gator nation when friday is the day we ruin cinderella's time at the dance. >> i hate this one cinderella. that's it. coming up next, kris jansing and company. bye-bye! here is your business travel forecast. a winter travel mess from the ohio valley through the

mid-atlantic. snow from philadelphia to baltimore, washington, d.c. on the roads, mostly slushy inch or two. in the ohio valley, be careful, a lot of secondary roads are snow covered. careful traveling these regions through today. i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. (screams) i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours.